There’s some quote from a Paris Review interview with Toni Morrison, where she said, 'Struggling through the work is extremely important — more important to me than publishing it.' Good quote.
Makes me think about that tweet “I want AI to do my laundry and dishes so that I can do art and writing, not for AI to do my art and writing so that I can do my laundry and dishes.” — the creative process is the point!
There’s so much to the blank stare part, that generation’s inability to handle or even register confrontation properly. It’s genuinely scary. Very bleak business. Thanks for sharing Dan!
I was like that, 30 years ago. What benefit was there to gain from talking to the professor who’d called out my BS? (Granted I never cheated in any way - and there was no ChatGPT - but I turned in half-baked slop well after due dates). He knew I’d BSed, I knew it, what else was there to say?
Some other students would urge me to ask for lenience but I’d rather eat an F than do that. Only marginally less true at age 48 than it was at 18.
Yes that part reminded me so much of trying to address some issue with my stepkids and getting the same total lack of response in return. Like....hello, is anyone there?!
That that student had the forethought to tell AI to make it seem like he wrote it but then not having the next thought of "don't let the teacher see that I told AI that" is bananas!
I love the line "He just has the thought that there should be thoughts."
And this one: "Point is, short of connections, your only chance in this industry is to care, to work, to be invested."
Not just in this industry, but in this life, in this everything.
And a chance for what?
This is the moment. This is now. This is what we are doing, whatever it is.
A well put point here as well: "I’m not sure what we’re saving our brains for in this case. If we don’t use those muscles, they’ll rot. And I’m not sure what the point of doing creative work is if you’re not pushing through the process."
And here: "And if people’s brains are off when they’re making the thing, how could we expect anyone’s to be on when consuming the thing?"
I'm glad your brain is on, my friend. It's a good one doing good things. With brains like yours and the majority of your students who DIDN'T do what that one did, I'm optimistic for the future. (WHAT A CONTROVERSIAL TWIST ENDING, DID YOU SEE IT COMING?)
Love you, love your writing, so glad you're doing what you're doing. Thank you for sharing!
“And if people’s brains are off when they’re making the thing, how could we expect anyone’s to be on when consuming the thing?” Totally. I keep thinking ChatGPT is writing pieces for people who don’t want to write for people who never wanted to read it in the first place. See: Letters of recommendation.
definitely that! but also beyond that, especially if we're pressured to just churn stuff out and especially if you're already predisposed to think your writing isn't good enough, which when you're learning to write or writing a first draft, it's like, of course it'll be bad.
My favorite line. “And if people’s brains are off when they’re making the thing, how could we expect anyone’s to be on when consuming the thing?” I think this is exactly the question. I’ve begun to read more carelessly because I can’t tell whether in reading something that was ever authored. Also, I actually am a painter, and I try to paint for the one person who will slow down and look closely. I have to paint as if that person is still out there.
I have struggled to understand the phenomenon of someone signing up for a creative degree or module and then using AI, shutting off their brain and missing out on the process which makes art art. Credit to you though. You were much more charitable than most people would be in that situation.
yeah, there needs to be some shift in what we are valuing — especially if you have kids coming from top high schools that are focused on grades and GPAs and test scores. it’s result result result. so, then even those who aspire to a more creative or liberal arts-y field are gonna be programmed to be like, how can i just get this result. idk.
Leaving the prompts in, such a noob move. Probably would’ve been able to tell it was AI anyway… have you noticed AI’s absolutely unhinged use of boldface? In contrast to the tryhard unhingedness of our generation’s cReEPy ranDoM CApiTaliZatIon
The world described is a strange world that I am happy to ignore, as I ignored all formal schooling after the age of eleven.
But two things struck me. Telling people what to invent is a perfectly legitimate way of inventing, provided that they understand their role. The product record at Apple bears this out. Jobs was essential.
Second, any painter who “thinks about” their next brushstroke would probably be of more use to society as a lawyer or an accountant.
I have been thinking about a three audiences model. The self, in process. Secondly, the audience as traditionally understood: those who see the work. But there is a subset of audience who in a way are the true audience, the ones whose opinions I care most about: my fellow practitioners of craft.
Really enjoyed this piece, thank you. I had a Year 8 student last year finally submit a task, after avoiding them all year. After accepting the (gentle) praise for getting something in, he said, “Oh okay Miss, look I didn’t really do it. I just told ChatGPT to write it the way a really dumb 14 year old would write it.” 🫣
Damn, that’s really interesting / sad that that’s how he chose to prompt it & that he owned it. Almost like seeing the results of art therapy where it gives you such a specific glimpse into their view of themselves. Thank you for sharing
I really appreciate this article. I haven’t taught a university class since before AI was so readily available, but even then I’d often catch students plagiarizing and always wondered about the motivation. If you don’t want to learn, why bother paying tuition?
Having struggled through the immense effort that it took to write multiple books, I can attest to how much there is to gain from actually doing the work - writing, re-writing, agonizing over how to improve it, re-writing again, choosing to accept or reject the editor’s suggestions, and on and on.
By the way, do you teach any screenwriting classes for the public? I have an idea churning inside my brain and am looking for a good class to help me bring it to fruition.
Hey Dan, I really enjoyed this article. Hilarious (and disappointing) to hear about the student's behavior. I believe in AI as a brainstorming and research partner, but not the artist. As humans, I think we forget how rewarding it is to grow through challenges and failures. We think we want balance and ease, but an easy life is not fulfilling. Struggling through the work is good for the soul.
whoa! what a great read! thank you for sharing! and how funny as this comes right after I spent the weekend reading the first pilot I wrote almost 10 years ago vs the most recent pilot I wrote about 4 years ago. both have like 5-15 drafts. LOL
I say this as an academic and instructor myself: students have the right to receive the grade they have earned. If I withhold from a student the grade they've earned, then I undercut the integrity of what any grade means for all of my students, including the good grades. I hated every F that I've ever given a student, because the circumstances are never happy, but that's what clear syllabi and rubrics are for.
If you were to swap any other grade letter for 'F', a statement like "I don't like giving D's" or 'I don't like giving B's" would seem nuts. I think it should be the same for the failing grade. Not in spite of sympathy for a particular student, but because of the duty to all our students.
You're not wrong! I just feel like life will certainly kick the shit out of them very soon and they're certainly failing themselves, so, they've gotten and will continue to receive F's and L's from life.
I don't disagree necessarily with that, but that's the perspective on the student who's earned the F. At the same time, there's the student who legitimately earned their D, who barely scraped by but honorably and sincerely passed the class, and that student's merit is rendered unseen when the same grade is given for other reasons.
For sure. And sadly fewer people are learning anything and fewer people are earning anything. And these ‘advances’ that encourage young people to keep their brains off lower earning potential and raise dependency. Sad stuff.
I’m a professor too (anthropology) and ended up having to test all 40 online students personal reflections for ai use. About 1/3 of the students DEFINITELY just used AI to make up some sort of story about their upbringing, and another 1/3 were inconclusive but seemed like they at least used ai heavily 🥲
Makes me think about that tweet “I want AI to do my laundry and dishes so that I can do art and writing, not for AI to do my art and writing so that I can do my laundry and dishes.” — the creative process is the point!
good tweet, i think grok wrote that
There’s so much to the blank stare part, that generation’s inability to handle or even register confrontation properly. It’s genuinely scary. Very bleak business. Thanks for sharing Dan!
it's super interesting and strange
I was like that, 30 years ago. What benefit was there to gain from talking to the professor who’d called out my BS? (Granted I never cheated in any way - and there was no ChatGPT - but I turned in half-baked slop well after due dates). He knew I’d BSed, I knew it, what else was there to say?
Some other students would urge me to ask for lenience but I’d rather eat an F than do that. Only marginally less true at age 48 than it was at 18.
Yes that part reminded me so much of trying to address some issue with my stepkids and getting the same total lack of response in return. Like....hello, is anyone there?!
Dear Dan,
I love this piece.
That that student had the forethought to tell AI to make it seem like he wrote it but then not having the next thought of "don't let the teacher see that I told AI that" is bananas!
I love the line "He just has the thought that there should be thoughts."
And this one: "Point is, short of connections, your only chance in this industry is to care, to work, to be invested."
Not just in this industry, but in this life, in this everything.
And a chance for what?
This is the moment. This is now. This is what we are doing, whatever it is.
A well put point here as well: "I’m not sure what we’re saving our brains for in this case. If we don’t use those muscles, they’ll rot. And I’m not sure what the point of doing creative work is if you’re not pushing through the process."
And here: "And if people’s brains are off when they’re making the thing, how could we expect anyone’s to be on when consuming the thing?"
I'm glad your brain is on, my friend. It's a good one doing good things. With brains like yours and the majority of your students who DIDN'T do what that one did, I'm optimistic for the future. (WHAT A CONTROVERSIAL TWIST ENDING, DID YOU SEE IT COMING?)
Love you, love your writing, so glad you're doing what you're doing. Thank you for sharing!
Love
Myq
ah thanks so much, myq. appreciate you, really truly, grateful for your brain as well
“And if people’s brains are off when they’re making the thing, how could we expect anyone’s to be on when consuming the thing?” Totally. I keep thinking ChatGPT is writing pieces for people who don’t want to write for people who never wanted to read it in the first place. See: Letters of recommendation.
definitely that! but also beyond that, especially if we're pressured to just churn stuff out and especially if you're already predisposed to think your writing isn't good enough, which when you're learning to write or writing a first draft, it's like, of course it'll be bad.
My favorite line. “And if people’s brains are off when they’re making the thing, how could we expect anyone’s to be on when consuming the thing?” I think this is exactly the question. I’ve begun to read more carelessly because I can’t tell whether in reading something that was ever authored. Also, I actually am a painter, and I try to paint for the one person who will slow down and look closely. I have to paint as if that person is still out there.
1000%. I do think they're out there, it's just not the masses -- but hopefully the connections will be all the more meaningful.
I have struggled to understand the phenomenon of someone signing up for a creative degree or module and then using AI, shutting off their brain and missing out on the process which makes art art. Credit to you though. You were much more charitable than most people would be in that situation.
yeah, there needs to be some shift in what we are valuing — especially if you have kids coming from top high schools that are focused on grades and GPAs and test scores. it’s result result result. so, then even those who aspire to a more creative or liberal arts-y field are gonna be programmed to be like, how can i just get this result. idk.
Leaving the prompts in, such a noob move. Probably would’ve been able to tell it was AI anyway… have you noticed AI’s absolutely unhinged use of boldface? In contrast to the tryhard unhingedness of our generation’s cReEPy ranDoM CApiTaliZatIon
Boldface, the long dash, and that super long divider thing btwn sections that I've never seen anyone use anywhere in life.
Plus, these certain hyperbolic statements, like, "It's not just a script, it's a call to action..."
Yes! And breaking things into bullet points —— sooooo many bullet points
You get what you put in, that summarizes so much of life in my opinion.
appreciate you
The world described is a strange world that I am happy to ignore, as I ignored all formal schooling after the age of eleven.
But two things struck me. Telling people what to invent is a perfectly legitimate way of inventing, provided that they understand their role. The product record at Apple bears this out. Jobs was essential.
Second, any painter who “thinks about” their next brushstroke would probably be of more use to society as a lawyer or an accountant.
The painting comment is referencing how the artistic process is the part that gives us humanity, rather than the result. Thanks for reading.
I have been thinking about a three audiences model. The self, in process. Secondly, the audience as traditionally understood: those who see the work. But there is a subset of audience who in a way are the true audience, the ones whose opinions I care most about: my fellow practitioners of craft.
Really enjoyed this piece, thank you. I had a Year 8 student last year finally submit a task, after avoiding them all year. After accepting the (gentle) praise for getting something in, he said, “Oh okay Miss, look I didn’t really do it. I just told ChatGPT to write it the way a really dumb 14 year old would write it.” 🫣
Damn, that’s really interesting / sad that that’s how he chose to prompt it & that he owned it. Almost like seeing the results of art therapy where it gives you such a specific glimpse into their view of themselves. Thank you for sharing
I really appreciate this article. I haven’t taught a university class since before AI was so readily available, but even then I’d often catch students plagiarizing and always wondered about the motivation. If you don’t want to learn, why bother paying tuition?
Having struggled through the immense effort that it took to write multiple books, I can attest to how much there is to gain from actually doing the work - writing, re-writing, agonizing over how to improve it, re-writing again, choosing to accept or reject the editor’s suggestions, and on and on.
By the way, do you teach any screenwriting classes for the public? I have an idea churning inside my brain and am looking for a good class to help me bring it to fruition.
Thanks so much, Heather! I don't teach classes for the public, but I do offer private lessons via Zoom. Feel free to message and we can discuss!
Thanks! Your piece inspired mine... https://atenderspace.substack.com/p/do-the-work-even-if-you-risk-getting?r=7e2z6&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
Great piece! Thank you for sharing!
Hey Dan, I really enjoyed this article. Hilarious (and disappointing) to hear about the student's behavior. I believe in AI as a brainstorming and research partner, but not the artist. As humans, I think we forget how rewarding it is to grow through challenges and failures. We think we want balance and ease, but an easy life is not fulfilling. Struggling through the work is good for the soul.
oh why thank you cindy
whoa! what a great read! thank you for sharing! and how funny as this comes right after I spent the weekend reading the first pilot I wrote almost 10 years ago vs the most recent pilot I wrote about 4 years ago. both have like 5-15 drafts. LOL
thanks so much! love that, a bunch of drafts shows we're trying
trying very much! 😭😭😭 and even started pilot number 3!
I say this as an academic and instructor myself: students have the right to receive the grade they have earned. If I withhold from a student the grade they've earned, then I undercut the integrity of what any grade means for all of my students, including the good grades. I hated every F that I've ever given a student, because the circumstances are never happy, but that's what clear syllabi and rubrics are for.
If you were to swap any other grade letter for 'F', a statement like "I don't like giving D's" or 'I don't like giving B's" would seem nuts. I think it should be the same for the failing grade. Not in spite of sympathy for a particular student, but because of the duty to all our students.
You're not wrong! I just feel like life will certainly kick the shit out of them very soon and they're certainly failing themselves, so, they've gotten and will continue to receive F's and L's from life.
I don't disagree necessarily with that, but that's the perspective on the student who's earned the F. At the same time, there's the student who legitimately earned their D, who barely scraped by but honorably and sincerely passed the class, and that student's merit is rendered unseen when the same grade is given for other reasons.
okay, you win, i'll fail 'em.
You learn what you earn vs you earn what you learn.
For sure. And sadly fewer people are learning anything and fewer people are earning anything. And these ‘advances’ that encourage young people to keep their brains off lower earning potential and raise dependency. Sad stuff.
I’m a professor too (anthropology) and ended up having to test all 40 online students personal reflections for ai use. About 1/3 of the students DEFINITELY just used AI to make up some sort of story about their upbringing, and another 1/3 were inconclusive but seemed like they at least used ai heavily 🥲